No more Mrs. "Nice Guy"... HELP!
Forgive me if this post goes all over the place... I have worked myself into a "tizzy" & that is never a good thing....
This is not a TEACHER BASHING post... this is a different culture..not sure what to do, I NEED to do something kind of a post.... : )
Usually I don't write about things I get really REALLY upset about...
although I seem to do a lot of bitching... I really don't mean it... ask anyone who knows me in person... I really am a pretty positive, upbeat, person ...
Today I am upset.... no, better make that PISSED OFF...
it is no secret that I didn't really WANT to move back to Norway... I try to cope with it the best that I can... & bitch & moan in a half hearted kind of way... but enjoy most aspects of life over here...
My family is happy... I love my new house.. my job... and am finally making some real friends here....
However, there are a couple of things that I can't get over/used to here in Norway...
the Health Care... & the Education.. these two things are soooo upsetting to me, that I choose NOT to deal with them unless I MUST...
I REALIZE we were very VERY blessed to have excellent health care in the U.S. (or should I say insurance...) & VERY BLESSED to that we were in an EXCELLENT School district while living there....
I REALIZE that is not the case for many Americans... I also REALIZE there are many people here in Norway who are happy with the education & health & probably will think I am a spoiled brat & suggest that I go back to where I come from... (I know that, so please don't send me any hate mail...)
OK... soooo... Monday night we get a call from Dane's teacher... (oh Sh!t... here we go again...)
First week of school & we are already going to have a problem....
Dane has a problem sitting still & keeping quiet in class.... we KNOW this... we feel like we have tried everything... It isn't because of A.D.D. or anything... the simple fact is that he is BORED..
Dane is a SMART kid... not sooo smart that people are going to Ohhh & Awww ... OH WHAT A SMART BOY... but smart enough that his classes are boring...
A week after starting kindergarten in the U.S. Dane's teacher took me a side. & said he was a smart boy... he thought "out of the box" & they wanted to put him on a program where he could work ahead & be creative... It went really really well.... I didn't know how lucky we were at the time... .to have a teacher so excited about all of the possibilities Dane had a head of him..
(Dane was tested & put into a gifted program in the US.... there is no such thing in our school district here in Norway)
The following year we move to Norway... we did have the option to put him a grade ahead, but Bjørn & I agreed it was more important for him to be with kids his own age....
He has been bored ever since.... in 2nd & 3rd grade they gave Dane extra homework... work sheets.... work sheets he did in 1/2 hour, handed in & never got any feedback... (I am pretty sure the teacher just threw them away)
Last year - new teacher... she tried to reward Dane with extra computer time.... (basically get him out of the room to keep him quiet until the other kids were finished...)
Monday, she suggested that she she send him out with the janitor so he could help him when Dane was finished with his class work..... ????
Bjørn said sure... OK... but the more I have thought about it, the madder I get.....
I am sick of my child being shuffled out of the room instead of finding something challenging for him to do...
I will be the FIRST to say I should have been more proactive when it comes to Danes education here... I feel like I have been living in a HAZE...depression...denial... I don't want to deal with it, so I haven't.... I have left it for Bjørn do deal with....
Norwegians are raised to be humble ... It isn't cool to brag or boast or show off in anyway....
So I always felt like I shouldn't make a big fuss & say "LOOK HOW SMART MY BOY IS..." I mean, is he? Everyone thinks their child is smart or gifted or beautiful.... but really are they?
& as the years go on & on here... Bjørn & I have accepted that maybe Dane is just an average student... Hmmm... He isn't WOWing everyone with his knowledge... he half asses his school work.. & is bored most of the time...
So what I am asking myself now is... Is he really average... or are we letting him down by not demanding more for/of him?
All of Dane's subjects are easy for him... but prime example... English...
For the past 4 years, Dane has been expected to sit quiet in the hour... they don't want him to contribute... I should have put my foot down 4 years ago, & DEMANDED that they find something for him to do.
Maybe Dane could do that? maybe he could help in the lesson instead of being expected to sit quiet?
I am not excusing my childs big mouth... he gets that from me... but I want the school/us to find a solution...
(We do our own educational things at home... but that doesn't help him not be bored in the classroom)
So this morning, being pissed off & feeling a little ballsy... I asked the teacher for a meeting on Friday.... NOW WHAT?
I need YOUR help & suggestions on motivating Dane to have the best experience POSSIBLE at school... but I want the school to make some effort as well.
* I want a report every week on how the week as gone... I asked the teacher in 1-3 for that... but she couldn't be bothered... I would like 5 min of her time to say GOOD WEEK...BAD WEEK... too much talking etc. I don't think that is too much to ask.
I think Dane should be punished for bad weeks at school... (no DS/TV over the weekend) & rewarded for working hard, & keeping quiet in class....
*I want them to find a way to move him in to more advanced classes.. even if it is just English & Math... (he doesn't want to try to skip a grade because he doesn't want to leave his friends & I GET that....)
By LAW ever child deserves a fitting education in Norway... but it seems the kids above average are put on the back burner...
OK... So suggestions on how to motivate Dane & getting help from his teachers... ???Thanks ya'll
This is not a TEACHER BASHING post... this is a different culture..not sure what to do, I NEED to do something kind of a post.... : )
Usually I don't write about things I get really REALLY upset about...
although I seem to do a lot of bitching... I really don't mean it... ask anyone who knows me in person... I really am a pretty positive, upbeat, person ...
Today I am upset.... no, better make that PISSED OFF...
it is no secret that I didn't really WANT to move back to Norway... I try to cope with it the best that I can... & bitch & moan in a half hearted kind of way... but enjoy most aspects of life over here...
My family is happy... I love my new house.. my job... and am finally making some real friends here....
However, there are a couple of things that I can't get over/used to here in Norway...
the Health Care... & the Education.. these two things are soooo upsetting to me, that I choose NOT to deal with them unless I MUST...
I REALIZE we were very VERY blessed to have excellent health care in the U.S. (or should I say insurance...) & VERY BLESSED to that we were in an EXCELLENT School district while living there....
I REALIZE that is not the case for many Americans... I also REALIZE there are many people here in Norway who are happy with the education & health & probably will think I am a spoiled brat & suggest that I go back to where I come from... (I know that, so please don't send me any hate mail...)
OK... soooo... Monday night we get a call from Dane's teacher... (oh Sh!t... here we go again...)
First week of school & we are already going to have a problem....
Dane has a problem sitting still & keeping quiet in class.... we KNOW this... we feel like we have tried everything... It isn't because of A.D.D. or anything... the simple fact is that he is BORED..
Dane is a SMART kid... not sooo smart that people are going to Ohhh & Awww ... OH WHAT A SMART BOY... but smart enough that his classes are boring...
A week after starting kindergarten in the U.S. Dane's teacher took me a side. & said he was a smart boy... he thought "out of the box" & they wanted to put him on a program where he could work ahead & be creative... It went really really well.... I didn't know how lucky we were at the time... .to have a teacher so excited about all of the possibilities Dane had a head of him..
(Dane was tested & put into a gifted program in the US.... there is no such thing in our school district here in Norway)
The following year we move to Norway... we did have the option to put him a grade ahead, but Bjørn & I agreed it was more important for him to be with kids his own age....
He has been bored ever since.... in 2nd & 3rd grade they gave Dane extra homework... work sheets.... work sheets he did in 1/2 hour, handed in & never got any feedback... (I am pretty sure the teacher just threw them away)
Last year - new teacher... she tried to reward Dane with extra computer time.... (basically get him out of the room to keep him quiet until the other kids were finished...)
Monday, she suggested that she she send him out with the janitor so he could help him when Dane was finished with his class work..... ????
Bjørn said sure... OK... but the more I have thought about it, the madder I get.....
I am sick of my child being shuffled out of the room instead of finding something challenging for him to do...
I will be the FIRST to say I should have been more proactive when it comes to Danes education here... I feel like I have been living in a HAZE...depression...denial... I don't want to deal with it, so I haven't.... I have left it for Bjørn do deal with....
Norwegians are raised to be humble ... It isn't cool to brag or boast or show off in anyway....
So I always felt like I shouldn't make a big fuss & say "LOOK HOW SMART MY BOY IS..." I mean, is he? Everyone thinks their child is smart or gifted or beautiful.... but really are they?
& as the years go on & on here... Bjørn & I have accepted that maybe Dane is just an average student... Hmmm... He isn't WOWing everyone with his knowledge... he half asses his school work.. & is bored most of the time...
So what I am asking myself now is... Is he really average... or are we letting him down by not demanding more for/of him?
All of Dane's subjects are easy for him... but prime example... English...
For the past 4 years, Dane has been expected to sit quiet in the hour... they don't want him to contribute... I should have put my foot down 4 years ago, & DEMANDED that they find something for him to do.
Maybe Dane could do that? maybe he could help in the lesson instead of being expected to sit quiet?
I am not excusing my childs big mouth... he gets that from me... but I want the school/us to find a solution...
(We do our own educational things at home... but that doesn't help him not be bored in the classroom)
So this morning, being pissed off & feeling a little ballsy... I asked the teacher for a meeting on Friday.... NOW WHAT?
I need YOUR help & suggestions on motivating Dane to have the best experience POSSIBLE at school... but I want the school to make some effort as well.
* I want a report every week on how the week as gone... I asked the teacher in 1-3 for that... but she couldn't be bothered... I would like 5 min of her time to say GOOD WEEK...BAD WEEK... too much talking etc. I don't think that is too much to ask.
I think Dane should be punished for bad weeks at school... (no DS/TV over the weekend) & rewarded for working hard, & keeping quiet in class....
*I want them to find a way to move him in to more advanced classes.. even if it is just English & Math... (he doesn't want to try to skip a grade because he doesn't want to leave his friends & I GET that....)
By LAW ever child deserves a fitting education in Norway... but it seems the kids above average are put on the back burner...
OK... So suggestions on how to motivate Dane & getting help from his teachers... ???Thanks ya'll
Comments
I think your ideas about a weekly report are totally valid- and that is not unreasonable. Frankly, I do daily charts for many kids. It only takes a couple of minutes and it is great for the child to see immediate feedback.
Has he been tested to see if he qualifies for his own gifted IEP? That would ensure that his needs be met, and you would have the paperwork to prove it. I will be interested to hear about the meeting!!!
Remember, you are your son's best cheerleader, supporter and "helper." Don't EVER feel guilty about trying to get the best for him.
I'd be upset too... I think this is definitely something you need to address & so what if you get a little upset - they'll see you are serious about this!
Good luck with your son in school - I think the teachers/school definitely need to step up and that it may be a good idea to put him in the more advanced english and math courses.
I lived overseas as a child (navy brat) and have always wanted to have that experience again. As a geologist, there are job opportunities all over the world and after ruling out most of it, I settled on Europe to look into, then to english speaking countries. UK and Scotland are still in the running, but from what I've heard and read about Norway, I like it the best. All the geologists I've talked to that have lived there (either in Oslo or Stavanger) said they very much enjoyed being there and would go back in heartbeat.
Sounds like Dane could really use to be bumped up in certain areas (different teacher). Don't feel too badly here; hindsight is always 20/20 & even here in the states those same types of problems exist.
Be strong. I would definitely ask for some type of feedback so that Dane can feel good about what he is doing. It kinda sounds like he's not putting much effort into things because he doesn't feel that it's worth it. Do jump all over this. If you don't Dane's learning experience will forever suck. Mine did.
No wonder why he's bored!
Is there anyway that he can work on Math with the 5th or 6th grade class? Granted, when he gets to 5th or 6th grade, they'll need to do the same thing (move him ahead), but it will at least keep him challenged?
As far as English is concerned, since Dane is fluent, I get the concern. But I agree--have him help or expand what he knows! Can they have him work on spelling & grammar (2 keystones that even adults have issues with!)? Help run drills with the kids?
I see this as a "I can't be bothered" reaction from the school rather than a "let's challenge him and see him grow!"
Go in with confidence! I agree with Vodka Mom--you are his cheerleader and you should not feel guilty!
GO GIRL! : )
Okay...real answers...I would ask that he be advanced to the next grade...just for certain subjects. And since there is not a gifted program...he really needs to be in a class where he can be challenged.
For English - I can't believe they want him to remain silent. And they don't want to use him for practice. Is there another language he could take while others are studying English? Or the other suggestion - for him to work on grammar and spelling - those are great ideas, too.
And I do think that gifted children get bored. And if they are bored...they are often creative enough to make their own fun that is counter productive to the classroom :-) There is no reason that your child should just tread water. Be proactive and demand results.
Anyway: to your problem. Tough! First off, I'm not sure that 'punishing' Dane for bad weeks at school is very productive. I believe that it is much better to reward good behaviour, thus reinforcing it and sending out positive signals. So, I would suggest giving Dane some kind of reward at the end of good weeks. If it's a bad week, then it's no special treat - but no punishment either.
Creativity and learning do not flourish by being punished. And if a good week means sitting still and not getting on teacher's nerves, then I wonder if this really is a good thing.
Kids should be active, loud, happy, curious, inventive...
I think you should ask DAne's teacher to come up with a plan as to how to activate him when he has finished his other work. This must surely be a common problem - with so many students at different levels, there must be other kids that also need activating (except perhaps in English).
Tell her you want extra challenging activity sheets. Also - why send him out of the class? He would surely benefit from helping the other kids; might help him feel useful and boost confidence.
My daughter is going to have the same problem in English. I'm going to suggest she does her own English workbooks during these lessons and also will be sending her with her own book to read. (She's 8.)
I'd also suggest you speak to Dane: is he bored at school because he doesn't like the subjects? Is he more interested in sports? Is he less bored in subjects that really make him passionate? Could be he's bored because of the teacher or other factors... Just wondering.
Finally, if you are not satisfied with the way things go, contact the Principal of the school and take it up with her/him.
Stand up for your kid. Don't feel guilty about it... He'll thank you in later life...
Oh - and good luck! If teacher doesn't respond, then I'll come over and kick some butt...
So maybe get him some great fun books to read in school?
Good luck - keep us posted! xx
I think Lady Fi made some good points. Take it up with the principal. The teacher is the middle man and not much help. At one point we tried to get Sarah moved up a class. She was bored to death also. We were told that things like that weren't done and she'd have to be psycologically tested and so on and so on and they made a big deal about her "lack of maturity" in contrast to those in the class above her (She was born the 17th of January and according to Norwegian law, if she had been born 18 days earlier it wouldn't have been a discussion about the difference between her maturity and those in the class above her.) It was such a big ordeal that we dropped the whole idea in the end.
It's very true that Norway has a million programs for the child who struggles- heck they have now even made a tv reality show about children who just don't get it in school and how to give them a clean slate and new outlook on learning- but the smart or above average child gets lost. They are too smart to spend time on...
A type of schooling here in Norway that I once thought could have been a good option but we never had one around us, was the montessori schools. They allow kids to learn at their own pace..another option is homeschooling your children. There is certainly enough high quality programs out there to help you out in that case, it's the socializing of kids that I think would be the biggest challege, at school socializing is a given.
Good luck and hang in there, your frustration has been felt by many over here. I personally think there should be a middle ground between the American system and the Norwegian. I think the American system is TOO hard and pushes kids TOO much but the Norwegian system doesn't push enough or encourage enough.
great minds think alike :)
my son gets bored in school. THANKFULLY this year his teacher sees this and has put him in accelerated reading.
i have no clue what to tell you. Not knowing how Norway does things makes it so much harder. I an say first hand that the BEST thing you can do is be involved and it sounds like you are doing that.
Good luck!!!!
From the way that you described Dane, it sounds like he is not (or shouldn't be) the smartest kid in the class. There has to be others. Are there standardize tests in Norway? If so, could he start working on studying for those?
I've found there is a huge difference from teacher to teacher. Emma's teachers are much better than Daniel's for recognizing that Emma needs some extra help/work here and there. For English they put her in a workbook two or three years ahead. This gave her something to do during class time while the others were learning colors or whatever, but it still wasn't enough as far as I was concerned. I've been supplimenting her English at home since day one with spelling curriculums that I've bought in the states, as well as reading comprehension workbooks.
She's always been slow in Math. Personally I think this has to do with struggling to understand abstract concepts in Norwegian, so her teachers and I make sure that she gets things explained to her in both languages.
I'm lucky with Em's teachers. They're willing to work with me a little bit. Daniel's teacher, on the other hand...worthless. She wrote him off as too stupid to live early last year, and hasn't given him a second thought since.
He's not stupid. He's perfectly average. He's just quiet, and crumbles fairly easily under the penetrating, impatient glare of a heartless automaton. I supplement pretty much everything (English and Norwegian) at home with him just to make sure he learns something.
The supplementing is something I have time to do because I don't work. I'm grateful for that...for the time being, anyway. They get home at 1.30 (half of Norway's freaking problem right there!), I give them a skiver, then put them right back to work. They've learned to live with the injustice of an actual education while all their friends bounce off walls at SFO.
I'm not sure what your solution might look like though. I do know that if I were you I'd be on that teacher's ass until she realized it was easier to work with you rather than deal with your nagging. And I agree with whoever said take it to the principal. Clearly his educational needs are not being met. Demand more. Especially where the English is concerned...I mean, JESUS! 'Sit still and don't talk.' Seriously?!
I'm the least confrontational person you've ever bumped blogs with. But if there's one subject that will light a fire under my ass and get me out there ranting, it's my children's education...or lack thereof. And that last one, well that's just effing outrageous....
1: Norway's policy of having all the kids in the class at all times is ridiculous, and is of no help to the gifted, average or struggling students.
2: The students participating in the struggling/gifted programs in the school in the US were not perceived negatively by the other students, as when one of them was out sick, another classmate would be selected to take their spot. It was very popular.
3: Having experienced gifted students in Norway whilst teaching, I involved them in the teaching, by allowing them to explain for example the maths problems to their classmates. Everyone was happy with this solution.
4: Having experienced struggling students in Norway whilst teaching, I was surprised by how they were treated by their teacher. One student had trouble reading, and when I called on him to read an excerpt of their reading homework, all the other students called out: “He’s exempt from reading!” Something didn’t feel right about it, as he’d seemed really eager when I called his name, so I asked him if he’d like to try? He was delighted, and eagerly read the piece – turns out he had been practicing all week with his mom, and his reading wasn’t bad at all! Again, very positive experience, but it could all depend on the kid.
5: Going to school in Norway I found myself quite bored in certain subjects (which is partly why I left after 9th grade). The teacher’s solution was to give me more of the same work – for example more of the same maths problems. In English, I was treated differently, being allowed to use ain’t instead of aren’t (I couldn’t remember the latter during the exam), when anyone else who used it would be marked down for it. It pissed me and my classmates off (I was mad at the teacher, they were mad at me…). In order to get a bit more of a challenge, I signed up for English as a mother tongue classes in the afternoon (in Norway, you’re entitled to instruction in your parent’s native language).
Have to run to a meeting now, but here’s my suggestion:
Get a hold of some US school books (additional practice books, higher level books etc.) the teacher can pull out for Dane when he finishes before everyone else. Tell her it’ll help with what she perceives as a problem. Suggest that she involve him in teaching the class English – thinking of him as a teacher’s aide. Sign him up of English as a mother tongue classes in the afternoon (there may be daytime ones too; they only had afternoon ones when I went to school). Alternatively, look into the Oslo International School, or Steinerskolen (not a big fan, but they do things differently).
Hope this helps! :-)
While I am down with living in Norway, that is partially to do with the fact I have no kids yet. I worry about the schooling system and worry equally as much about having to sell a kidney to pay international school tuition should we decide to send them down the private school route. I knew we were going to have an issue when Husband asked, "Do you think 6 is too young to send them to boarding school abroad?" We are concerned about the educational opportunities here, and reading this reinforces those concerns. Pass the Tums!
I can also identify because I teach university here in Norway, so I see the product being spit out from the public school system. Pretty it ain't. Compared to lecturing in the UK or US, here I feel sometimes like I am teaching high school.
Best of luck with this issue - I wish there was an easy answer!
I don't have any great advice about what to tell the teacher - sorry - but maybe throw it back on her and say what can you do to challenge him more? Hold your ground and I believe you are doing exactly the right thing by trying to figure out a solution.
Good luck!
Go for it - plant down your American boots and let them know you want your child to matter!!
Would they allow you finding material from the U.S. that would challenge him and allow him to do that when they send him out? That way YOU know he is learning and doing stuff you approve of?
Sorry... that sucks... he sounds like such an exceptional kid to even deal with it for the last few years!
I come from a European background as well...and am married to a European. So, I get what you are seeing.
It such a hot debate about health care and education. I don't wish to jump in, but I can say I hear what you are saying. And, teaching to the common denominator is not what leads to ingenuity and the advancement of a society or individual. Get in there and show 'em some American know how! ;-)
Differentiated curriculum, gifted programs, IEPs, testing...these are all American ideas.
Just a thought! Good luck!
I raised two gifted children and solved the problem in two ways. First, I skipped my children, one skipped two grades (and when she went to school in Russia for a while, they also skipped her two grades); the other was skipped four grades when he first began school by the university laboratory school. Neither suffered. In fact, they found more in common with the older kids than with kids their own age. You might want to re-consider your decision (or try skipping and see what happens; your child can always be returned to his own grade if he is uncomfortable with the older kids).
The youngest, highly gifted child I eventually homeschooled because by the time he was in fourth grade he had completed math all the way through high school in his ungraded private school. There was nothing more for him. In homeschooling, I was able to contract with university professors to teach him math (he was well beyond anything I knew). He hiked the Appalachian Trail for 6 months with his dad, served as a computer lab trouble-shooting assistant to elementary school teachers, held an internship at the US Department of State (working with the computer consultant), and homeschooled his older sister for me for a short period of time. Then, he turned 12; we put him into a public school independent learner program, which hooked him up with the local community college, and at 14 he enrolled as a full-time college student. He seems to have done well in life. Does not regret his rather unorthodox education. He is in fact highly knowledgeable -- far more than typical college graduates -- for while bored at one point, he read an entire public library (seriously).
His sister is now a professor of cognitive neuroscience and psychology. She does not regret having skipped two grades, either. I figure as a psychologist, she would be the first to say that we had done something wrong in raising her (or her brother), but she does not.
You will have to make your own decision about what is best for your child. No one can really give you the kind of advice you need. Your child is probably the best source of that. Talk to him and see what HE wants to do. Let him know what the options are. Maybe his out-of-the-box thinking will come up with others.
Moderately gifted children are not bored in school, in my experience, and do well in GATE programs. However, highly gifted children do not fare well in GATE programs, either, and they are typically unable to establish rapport with teachers who, not being highly gifted themselves, simply do not understand how they think or why they act as they do and try to get them to conform to some kind of programming that their professors taught them to implement.
My gifted kids made their own (informed) decisions about their own education, and they did an excellent job of it. My advice, for what it is worth, is to pull your son into being part of the solution rather than being the whole of the problem.
(And finally, why it is easy to be frustrated at schools that are incapable of educating the most talented of its population, it is a fact in both the USA and abroad that schools are set up for the bell curve: the average plus or minus 20%. That totally omits the top 2% or so, which is a very small number -- unless your child falls into it!
Good luck!